Welcome!

Weblogic Authors: Yeshim Deniz, Elizabeth White, Michael Meiner, Michael Bushong, Avi Rosenthal

Related Topics: Java IoT, IBM Cloud, Weblogic, Microsoft Cloud

Java IoT: Article

Microsoft's "Java Envy" Is Undeniable, Don Box Admits

Microsoft SOAP Guru Don Box and Anders Hejlsberg - the "Father of C#" - Both Paid Tribute to Java

"There are certainly people in the 'big house' that have Java envy," said Don Box last week, at the OOPSLA conference in Vancouver. "I know that for every Java idea there are probably three different implementations of it in .NET floating around Microsoft," he added.

The discussion took place in a debate billed as "The Great J2EE vs. Microsoft .NET Shootout" by the OOPSLA organizers.

Other Java-related statements from the session:


Hejlsberg: "there's a kernel of simplicity in the Java system"

"I respect that "I respect that there's a kernel of simplicity in the Java system that's probably long since been drowned out by lots of libraries"

Anders Hejlsberg, Microsoft distinguished engineer and lead designer for the C# language



Box: "Java...keeps putting more troops into the Vietnam that is O/R"

"I marvel at how many O/R layers there are on the Java side. The thing that scares me about a lot of their O/R approaches is it's basically going back to the early '90s model? I hope the Java community keeps putting more troops into the Vietnam that is O/R."

Don Box, leading architect on Microsoft's Indigo project



John Crupi: "Microsoft...have seen the successes of Java"

"Microsoft is in an interesting position in that they have seen the successes of Java and Java technology and were able to learn that and apply it. And the ways that they're applying it, some are very interesting and some are still lacking in addressing all the needs of the enterprise developer."

John Crupi, chief Java architect for Sun Services at Sun Microsystems

More Stories By Java News Desk

JDJ News Desk monitors the world of Java to present IT professionals with updates on technology advances, business trends, new products and standards in the Java and i-technology space.

Comments (9) View Comments

Share your thoughts on this story.

Add your comment
You must be signed in to add a comment. Sign-in | Register

In accordance with our Comment Policy, we encourage comments that are on topic, relevant and to-the-point. We will remove comments that include profanity, personal attacks, racial slurs, threats of violence, or other inappropriate material that violates our Terms and Conditions, and will block users who make repeated violations. We ask all readers to expect diversity of opinion and to treat one another with dignity and respect.


Most Recent Comments
dotwhat 11/10/04 03:51:11 PM EST

So if he borrowed from Python and Icon as well as from Java, what did Hejlsberg originate in C sharp? Is it just a mish-mash of other languages? (Maybe that's a good thing, I'm just asking.)

CSharp 11/10/04 03:25:31 PM EST

Hejlsberg has made sure that C-sharp has some great borowings from other languages, such as the concept of generator functions from Python and iterator functions from languages like Icon and Python.

snorbert 11/07/04 09:03:44 PM EST

Bluebottle certainly looks nice and lean... it's like AmigaDOS done with Oberon. No wonder the system calls are fast: they're not actually system calls, they're just procedure calls. And unlike, say, Java, they don't even set out to stop you from clobbering other objects in the shared address space - they just assume that you will do almost everything in type-safe Active Oberon, and will be very very careful if you don't. Bad luck if you want to support multiple people working on the same system.

But reading some of the Bluebottle sources, what is it with the ETH-style languages (Modula-2, Oberon) and the SHOUTING KEYWORDS? Do ETH people actually like having to hit the $#!? caps lock key every few words? Or do they use an editor which does the stupid capitalization for them? If so, what actual point is it? It's like the old Star Trek episodes where the computer had to yell in a grating monotone just to remind you that *it was a computer*.

Tech Researcher 11/06/04 01:28:29 AM EST

Please, be serious and really do some research :
both DOT NET and J2EE are bloated everchanging copycats working over very old OS architectures dating from the seventies.

If you really want some efficient, lean, mean and SIMPLE architecture, really long-lasting, please visit ETHZ site's :
http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/
Those researchers have done a marvelous job. Their job. It's your job to use it. If you want. Test it.

Silly Box 11/05/04 07:05:07 PM EST

Box's comments are very discouraging. He must realize that when you don't have a giant corp snatching up ideas and crushing the originators, then you end up with something quite astonishing: Choice. Hibernate, iBatis, JDO and the like exist because individuals and companies contribute - because they receive benefits. Case in point, Java has ant, quite happy with it, if not try Maven, if not...build something better. It's such a good idea, MS would like to steal it, and call it MsBuild (quite flattering, actually).
Now, the .Net people who wrote (n)ant are wringing their hands because MS is going to crush them, people are asking (should I even bother...). Constrast that with the various regexp projects before java supported regex, and now they are happily existing along side the official Java (ORO etc). Same for logging (commons, log4j java 1.4 etc).

To compare it with Vietnam is obsurd. Hmmm. Java developers are actually happily volunteering for this and deriving great value. Hell, if you're a Java programmer and you don't benefit from an o/r mapper or persistence layer, more power to you. Choice. We even have tools that make changing our minds less expensive too (springframework.org). Ah, and yes, there is a .net port underway. Does that make .Net developers the greatly underestimated lemmings of the Vietnam War? Please, MS spokespeople, continue trying to tell me why choice is bad.

AcronymImpaired (AI) 11/05/04 01:17:54 PM EST

what does "o/r" mean?

LonghornIsComing 11/05/04 07:31:35 AM EST

Sure .NET has a ways to go yet at the enterprise level but I doubt that this Microsoft Java envy will last much beyond 2006...after that everything may change

JBoy 11/03/04 07:47:20 AM EST

Praise from Hejlsberg is praise indeed. Makes a change from the barbs you usually hear from language gurus. Perhaps there's something to this co-opetition idea after all, with Java and C# as rivals rather than enemies.

OopslaGreg 11/03/04 07:16:53 AM EST

I was there in Vancouver. The *really* cool moment was when Microsoft's "Indigo" maven, Box, conceded that he loved the fact that the JVM's footprint is so small.

@ThingsExpo Stories
Enterprises have taken advantage of IoT to achieve important revenue and cost advantages. What is less apparent is how incumbent enterprises operating at scale have, following success with IoT, built analytic, operations management and software development capabilities – ranging from autonomous vehicles to manageable robotics installations. They have embraced these capabilities as if they were Silicon Valley startups. As a result, many firms employ new business models that place enormous impor...
SYS-CON Events announced today that Taica will exhibit at the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO) Pavilion at SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Taica manufacturers Alpha-GEL brand silicone components and materials, which maintain outstanding performance over a wide temperature range -40C to +200C. For more information, visit http://www.taica.co.jp/english/.
SYS-CON Events announced today that Dasher Technologies will exhibit at SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 - Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Dasher Technologies, Inc. ® is a premier IT solution provider that delivers expert technical resources along with trusted account executives to architect and deliver complete IT solutions and services to help our clients execute their goals, plans and objectives. Since 1999, we'v...
Recently, REAN Cloud built a digital concierge for a North Carolina hospital that had observed that most patient call button questions were repetitive. In addition, the paper-based process used to measure patient health metrics was laborious, not in real-time and sometimes error-prone. In their session at 21st Cloud Expo, Sean Finnerty, Executive Director, Practice Lead, Health Care & Life Science at REAN Cloud, and Dr. S.P.T. Krishnan, Principal Architect at REAN Cloud, will discuss how they b...
SYS-CON Events announced today that MIRAI Inc. will exhibit at the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO) Pavilion at SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. MIRAI Inc. are IT consultants from the public sector whose mission is to solve social issues by technology and innovation and to create a meaningful future for people.
SYS-CON Events announced today that TidalScale, a leading provider of systems and services, will exhibit at SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 - Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. TidalScale has been involved in shaping the computing landscape. They've designed, developed and deployed some of the most important and successful systems and services in the history of the computing industry - internet, Ethernet, operating s...
SYS-CON Events announced today that IBM has been named “Diamond Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 21st Cloud Expo, which will take place on October 31 through November 2nd 2017 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California.
Join IBM November 1 at 21st Cloud Expo at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, and learn how IBM Watson can bring cognitive services and AI to intelligent, unmanned systems. Cognitive analysis impacts today’s systems with unparalleled ability that were previously available only to manned, back-end operations. Thanks to cloud processing, IBM Watson can bring cognitive services and AI to intelligent, unmanned systems. Imagine a robot vacuum that becomes your personal assistant tha...
SYS-CON Events announced today that TidalScale will exhibit at SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. TidalScale is the leading provider of Software-Defined Servers that bring flexibility to modern data centers by right-sizing servers on the fly to fit any data set or workload. TidalScale’s award-winning inverse hypervisor technology combines multiple commodity servers (including their ass...
As hybrid cloud becomes the de-facto standard mode of operation for most enterprises, new challenges arise on how to efficiently and economically share data across environments. In his session at 21st Cloud Expo, Dr. Allon Cohen, VP of Product at Elastifile, will explore new techniques and best practices that help enterprise IT benefit from the advantages of hybrid cloud environments by enabling data availability for both legacy enterprise and cloud-native mission critical applications. By rev...
Infoblox delivers Actionable Network Intelligence to enterprise, government, and service provider customers around the world. They are the industry leader in DNS, DHCP, and IP address management, the category known as DDI. We empower thousands of organizations to control and secure their networks from the core-enabling them to increase efficiency and visibility, improve customer service, and meet compliance requirements.
With major technology companies and startups seriously embracing Cloud strategies, now is the perfect time to attend 21st Cloud Expo October 31 - November 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center, CA, and June 12-14, 2018, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY, and learn what is going on, contribute to the discussions, and ensure that your enterprise is on the right path to Digital Transformation.
Amazon is pursuing new markets and disrupting industries at an incredible pace. Almost every industry seems to be in its crosshairs. Companies and industries that once thought they were safe are now worried about being “Amazoned.”. The new watch word should be “Be afraid. Be very afraid.” In his session 21st Cloud Expo, Chris Kocher, a co-founder of Grey Heron, will address questions such as: What new areas is Amazon disrupting? How are they doing this? Where are they likely to go? What are th...
SYS-CON Events announced today that N3N will exhibit at SYS-CON's @ThingsExpo, which will take place on Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. N3N’s solutions increase the effectiveness of operations and control centers, increase the value of IoT investments, and facilitate real-time operational decision making. N3N enables operations teams with a four dimensional digital “big board” that consolidates real-time live video feeds alongside IoT sensor data a...
In his Opening Keynote at 21st Cloud Expo, John Considine, General Manager of IBM Cloud Infrastructure, will lead you through the exciting evolution of the cloud. He'll look at this major disruption from the perspective of technology, business models, and what this means for enterprises of all sizes. John Considine is General Manager of Cloud Infrastructure Services at IBM. In that role he is responsible for leading IBM’s public cloud infrastructure including strategy, development, and offering ...
Digital transformation is changing the face of business. The IDC predicts that enterprises will commit to a massive new scale of digital transformation, to stake out leadership positions in the "digital transformation economy." Accordingly, attendees at the upcoming Cloud Expo | @ThingsExpo at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, Oct 31-Nov 2, will find fresh new content in a new track called Enterprise Cloud & Digital Transformation.
SYS-CON Events announced today that NetApp has been named “Bronze Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. NetApp is the data authority for hybrid cloud. NetApp provides a full range of hybrid cloud data services that simplify management of applications and data across cloud and on-premises environments to accelerate digital transformation. Together with their partners, NetApp emp...
Smart cities have the potential to change our lives at so many levels for citizens: less pollution, reduced parking obstacles, better health, education and more energy savings. Real-time data streaming and the Internet of Things (IoT) possess the power to turn this vision into a reality. However, most organizations today are building their data infrastructure to focus solely on addressing immediate business needs vs. a platform capable of quickly adapting emerging technologies to address future ...
Most technology leaders, contemporary and from the hardware era, are reshaping their businesses to do software. They hope to capture value from emerging technologies such as IoT, SDN, and AI. Ultimately, irrespective of the vertical, it is about deriving value from independent software applications participating in an ecosystem as one comprehensive solution. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Kausik Sridhar, founder and CTO of Pulzze Systems, will discuss how given the magnitude of today's applicati...
As popularity of the smart home is growing and continues to go mainstream, technological factors play a greater role. The IoT protocol houses the interoperability battery consumption, security, and configuration of a smart home device, and it can be difficult for companies to choose the right kind for their product. For both DIY and professionally installed smart homes, developers need to consider each of these elements for their product to be successful in the market and current smart homes.